To follow up on what has been discussed in the Comments for this thread, I wanted to repeat or stress a few key points.
1) All the research shows that physical discipline almost always has bad consequences, especially since it’s nearly always done when the parent is angry and frustrated, rather than calm and in control. Moreover, it does not teach the child why the actions were wrong and the only three things the kid learns are 1) my caregiver (or all big people) is scary, 2) I’d better get better at hiding my bad behaviour or lying about it, and 3) “might makes right”–when I get bigger, I’ll be able to take my anger and frustration out physically on others (usually smaller than I).
2) Even when the child is very young and cannot speak, the parent should get in the habit of communicating to the child why something is inappropriate, NEVER using any phrase that implies the CHILD is bad, e.g., “bad boy,” or “if you’re a good girl…” No, I’m not one of those people who gets caught up in semantics, but I do know that (young) children internalize things, so they already infer that they are “bad” when their parents are upset; using language that says they are bad re-inforces this notion beyond the parent’s emotional reaction. Discipline, instilling fear, punishment, etc. will not help the child develop or internalize the proper messages if there is no message to go along with the discipline.
3) In short, the child needs to hear 1) why what they did was inappropriate/unacceptable, 2) what they should be doing instead, 3) what the consequences will be if they don’t stop doing the inappropriate/unacceptable thing or do it again, and 4) why there are such consequences. And they need to be reminded of this over and over.
4) Most parents fail to follow through on discipline. For instance, I was at the park last week and a mother was there with her kids. One of them (about 4) smacked his younger brother (about 2) and his mother yelled, “Robert, come here!” The older kid (Robert) said “NO!” She repeated it, he repeated his answer and she got sidetracked tending to the other kid and nothing happened to Robert at all.
I guarantee that if you asked every parent/neighbour/friend who knows this mother and father–he was there too and did nothing, as he was with another kid but did see what happened–what they think of them, they’ll praise them for being great parents. They have money, send the kids to a great school, dress them well, go out together to the park, etc. But I have higher standards than most people and to me, that mother failed miserably. And I can guarantee you that she will manifest the same type of failure in many different ways. And virtually no one would pick up on her failings. Yet, when Robert starts doing bad things at school, people will wonder how that could be. They’ll say this is one more example of a kid just “turning out bad” without any blame found in the parent, since these are two “great” parents. Bullshit.
You may think I’m being harsh or have overly high standards, but I do not. I just happen to know how children develop into the types of teens and adults they end up becoming. And I can see the signs in the kids and the parents that most other people miss. I may seem arrogant for saying this but I’m just reporting facts (yes, even that sentence may seem arrogant…).
By the way, there were other minor incidents with both the mother and father that clearly showed that they do have good intentions but are not nearly as competent as they need to be, especially with FOUR very young children. As I’ve done many times in the past, I’ve laid bets on how these kids will turn out in a few years and beyond. My significant other hates when I do that because in the many years I’ve been doing this, I haven’t been wrong once…
5) raleighdiver wrote:
When your kid is throwing food and misbehaving and you’re doing all you can to get him to stop but he thinks it’s funny. You put him in timeout and he does it again, do you just keep repeating the process? I’ve never hit my 2 year old child but I wonder if he won’t learn faster. Now, we just put him in timeout for a few minutes, he wails, timeout is done, rinse and repeat for a few cycles until we just let him get out of the situation and we just deal with the thrown food, etc. We’ve tried multiple times to get him to eat his veggies from begging to bribery to hiding it in various foodstuffs.
We try not to go out too much since he’s unpredictable. Any advice as to how to do this better? I feel that guiding and teaching only goes so far as if you have someone willing to listen. Of course, maybe this just applies to older kids? But I’m afraid we’re setting a bad precedent when he gets older. any advice would be appreciated.
My response is that he’s unpredictable because his parents’ response is unpredictable. Sometimes it’s begging, sometimes it’s bribery, sometimes it’s subterfuge. Most important, no matter what you do, in the end you give up. You’ve basically conditioned him to believe that, all he has to do is keep trying hard enough and he’ll eventually win. You and your wife have taught him that, just as you could have taught him that throwing food will end up with a smack.
Remember, he’s two years old and isn’t that smart. But he’s about as smart as a dog and dogs can be trained. People hate when I use that analogy but it’s true. Apparently time-outs haven’t worked with him, so you have to try something different and you have to be consistent.
One important thing is to make sure he never gets a chance to throw his veggies. YOU feed them to him with one hand ready to grab his hands as soon as he tries to swat the spoon out of your hand. Have both parents do this if necessary. Once you’ve mastered feeding him, you give him the chance to eat himself, once again with your hands close by to stop him as soon as he even thinks of doing something wrong. You have to be smarter and faster and think more ahead than him. He’s two years old.
No, it’s not easy, but no adult should ever lose to a child. Worst-case scenario, don’t feed him. He won’t starve but he’ll definitely get hungry after and will have to eat. Now, his reaction when he sees the veggies at this point will be to resist them as always. Be insistent. If he doesn’t eat, put him back down and say something like, “Okay, no food for you.” He’ll cry. He may throw a tantrum. Before he does cry (or after), explain that if he wants to eat, he has to eat veggies too. And make sure he eats his veggies first.
You can even tell him that if he eats part of his veggies first, he gets something else he likes. Some “experts” argue against this because it’s a kind of association where the veggies are now seen as the bad guy, but those “experts” are idiots because if the kid already hates the veggies, there’s nothing wrong with acting accordingly–treating the veggies as something he likes, when he doesn’t, won’t make him change magically. And this notion of going through unpleasant things (e.g., veggies) to get to the fun stuff (e.g., dessert) is something that is with us our entire lives (e.g., finish homework before going out to play, or finish a report before going out for drinks), so why not condition the kid early on?
Anyway, you have to keep repeating this and it may seem hard and stressful but in the end it works, it doesn’t take that many tries, and and it’s more effective than a time-out because there’s a much more direct link between the kid’s actions and the consequences. “You don’t want to eat, fine. Go down. Buh-bye” (without making him think he’s being abandoned, of course). But the key is persistence. Most parents lack this trait, as in the example above.
But be prepared to compromise. If he eats only 1/2 of what you want, fine. If you have other food that meets his nutrition needs (e.g., fruits), you’re okay. It’s a matter of picking battles. Of course, the other related option is to give alternatives, with the other alternative being something the kid doesn’t want.